Base Weight

I am fairly new to this kind of backpakcing, having come from using antique ruck sacks packed the way the army says to do it. It has been a few years since I did even that kind of packing. I have purchased some new gear on an extremely tight budget and believe I have finally found my base weight.

Firts, to clarify, is it true that base weight is EVERYTHING except for food and water? If so then my base weight is 21 lb 12 oz. It will be a two night trip so i figure 3-4lbs food, and i plan on carrying about 4 liters of water between camel bak and Sigg bottle.

Is this too high a base weight? Do you have any suggestions that doesnt include buying a $300 sleeping bag or $500 pack?

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Base-ic thing about "base weight" is that it is an ever evolving thing, and depends on your particular kind of outing. For instance, summer in the Sierra or Rockies calls for a base weight much lighter than winter in the Presidentials. That's one of the things about what the army told you to do - their basic mission calls for particular items, with a much heavier base weight. Yes, you are correct - base weight is everything except the expendables - food, water, fuel.

21-12 is reasonable (depending, of course, on exactly what that consists of). Your next step is to make a list of every item (even the tiny "negligible weight" items) and how much they weigh. At the end of each trip, go down the list and mark each item as "used it", "didn't use it, but it was there just in case", "nice to have, but could have gotten along without it", "tried to use it, but it proved to be a piece of junk", "totally useless", "absolutely the most valuable thing I had along" .. you get the idea. Add to the list "really needed it, but didn't bring it along" items.

After a few trips, you will find yourself taking the "useless" and "piece of junk" items out of the pack and adding the "really needed it" items, as well as eliminating duplications (items that serve multiple purposes, so you eliminate the duplications). For example, many people find a big insulated cup serves as a cup for that hot drink and a bowl for the food, so they don't need cup, plate, and bowl (or multiples of each). A spork can serve as both spoon and fork. Can you get away with a single cook pot, or do you need a set of several nested pots (us gourmet backcountry chefs need multiple pots, plus a wok - sometimes).

Just don't lock in on a single list of gear that you "carve in stone". Keep experimenting.

By the way, 4 liters of water may be a bit much, depending on where you are going. That's 8.8 pounds. Carrying 2 liters plus a pump filter is less weight, if you have streams along the way where you can refill (on a 2 or more day trip, you will have to refill anyway to stay properly hydrated). If you are heading into a desert climate, then 4 liters could be way too little.

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One area I have made a lot of space and weight changes is my "kitchen", it has been a slow evolution for me. I was carrying way too much stuff, even though some of it weighed next to nothing. This will always be different things for different people. But I am down to a hybrid cup/bowl thingy, titanium spork, two piece titanium mess kit, stove, and one of those lightweight synthetic yellow towels, salt & pepper. I carry a few other items as needed. If you need something to stir with try using a stick or clean tent stake, or whatever you already have!

Had to get rid of my plastic spatula, pot holders, large wooden spoon, sos pad w soap in it, small vise grips, ect.
Also the collapsible sink is now my dogs water bowl.
Bill S. is right it just takes time. But it is fun!

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The sad thing is my base weight includes nothing for kitchen stuff. My friends, for reasons I can't figure out, all like to do the MRE thing. Its ok I guess, but it just seems there is a better solution to carrying food than MREs. Here is my list of big items that eat up a lot of weight...
North Face Terra 60...4-13
Sleeping Bag (40deg)..4-4
Kelty Teton 2 tent....4 lbs

Is there a light weight verssion of an E-tool out there... mine is 2 lbs+.

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Walkeraviator,

You mentioned not wanting to buy a $300 sleeping bag, which would be completely rediculous. I have a Eureka Casper that I bought for $65 from Vermont's Barre Army Navy store online. It weighs 2lb 15oz, which may be too much for UltraLight backpackers but it would be better than the one you have now. I guess just keep researching and little by little you can lighten your load. Good luck!

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Something you may find (which I did to my great surprise) is just how quickly those "tiny", "weighs only a couple ounces" things add up. After one extended climbing expedition, I pulled out a number of the "little" things and discovered they added up to close to 4 pounds. I quickly shed most of them before the next trip.

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I find it helps to weigh things lumped by functional categories. The big categories are:

Packing (pack, rain cover, stuff sacks)
Sleeping (pad, bag, liner, ground cloth, tent or tarp, etc)
Clothes (rain gear, extra insulation)
Eating and drinking (not the food itself; just stove, etc.)

Now take all the "other" categories you might think of and put them in a single pile. (Navigation, first aid, emergency, toiletries/hygiene, sunscreen, etc., etc.) If this pile collectively weighs more than two pounds, then you probably are carrying a lot of extra stuff you don't need. (Mine weighs 18 oz. for a week). You can save a lot of weight out of this pile for ABSOLUTELY FREE. Just leave it home or repack it into smaller bottles. Off-brand eyedrops are cheap--just pour the eyedrops down the drain and re-use the extremely useful and right-sized bottle. Do you really need all that soap? How much did you actually use on your last trip? How about first aid? It's called first aid for a reason. Don't pack for surgery. Duct tape is a substitue for about half of your first aid kit. Dental floss works not only for teeth, but for that sewing repair kit you thought was a good idea.

A few other ideas:
Another cheap weight saver: Inexperienced people tend to lean towards water filters for all occasions. In the mountains, even unstrained water looks and tastes great with an inexpensive chemical treatment. Leave the heavy filter at home.

Do you really need a trowel? Substitute a tent stake designed for sand and dig your evening cathole before you go to bed...since the stake is occupied with its other duty after you set up your tent.

Carrying shoes for stream crossings? Try taking a set of shoe insoles from a discarded pair of shoes and insert them in a pair of old, short socks. Dorky, but it works great for crossing streams. Pin to the outside of your backpack to dry. Cost: zilch. Great weight savings if you previously carrying water shoes, as I once was.

When you finally get enough loose change to spend some money, look again at those first four categories--packing, sleeping, cooking, and clothing carried. Single out the worst "offenders."

Usually it's the tent. After you gain more experience, you may find yourself leaning toward a single-wall tarptent or tarp. Almost all the thru-hikers use them, and they spend months on the trail.

Also, rain gear can eat up more weight than you realize. If you aren't expecting sustained rain, consider hunkering down under a trash bag, carrying an emergency poncho, or tying your rainfly to a couple of tree limbs...take a break, make some hot chocolate! Or watch the internet for ultralight raingear--people are always buying it, expecting too much of it, then re-selling it. Buy a slightly long rain jacket--something just beyond your privates--and skip the pants. Just keep moving and you'll stay warm.

Skip the pack cover. What do you really need to keep dry? Your sleeping bag and any clothes you are carrying. That's pretty much it. Put them in a sil-nylon stuff sack (if you have space, lose the nearly quarter-pound stuff sack while you're at it). Carry one more trash bag in case you really get caught in a downpour. Don't apply the trash bag to your sleeping bag until you really have to, however, as a trash bag only survives about one use.

Eventually you will scrape together enough money to make some upgrades. Upgrade your pack last, if at all possible. Most lighter packs are for lighter loads, so this can't be replaced first.

(Personal basepack down to 13 1/2 pounds for a week or more...and dropping! Yeah, I had to buy a $225 tarptent to do it--but I love it (see Henry Shires site and drool all you want). One last thought in my very long post; don't include fuel in your basepack weight, as this varies by trip, as well. Do, however, count the weight of an empty fuel bottle, or else the ultralight fanatics will accuse you of "cheating". And you know how edgy they can be!).

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Or get a really big dog and load him down!
Mine likes it!

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While advice is always good, experience is going to be the key here. The fact is, you're going to do some outings with too much weight, then you may overcompensate and end up spending a weekend out without something you really could have used, but in the end, you'll get it right.
To facilitate this, start making some lists. Make a list of everything you take with you on the first trip. Then, keep a running tally of what you used, didn't use, but was nice to have, things absolutely essential and those random items that almost always get thrown in that make you wonder why you ever brought it (like the e-tool).
Once you have a good list (and like Bill said, this varies by terrain, season and what you're doing while out in the woods) start thinking about items with multiple uses (spork anyone?) and then, if you're still into it, you can start to obsess and and drill holes in your toothbrush.

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rdavis is right, multi use lightweight items are key.
Use your imagination, be innovative. Keep track of what you use and what you don't use, or what you can do without.
I would not advise anyone to skimp on the first aid kit though. Take the recommended items.
You can also be just as miserable with too little gear as you can with too much. It is a process everyone must go through for themselves, there is no one size fits all list!

For example, I use an 8 lb tent, some people think I'm crazy.
But I'm not a through hiker anymore, I like the extra space, I hate single wall tents because they are way too stuffy and hot if you have to hunker down for a few hours due to rain. I often do! Tarps don't do too well in the winds I often encounter. I use a pack dog, he carries my rain fly and footprint.
This works well for me and the extra weight makes me stronger, I can always lighten up and gain an advantage on the ultra light guys due to my conditioning.

Everyones needs are different, and everyones gear will be different.
If needed, I can get my pack down to 16 lb's total weight.
I used to thru hike with no tent, no stove, no filter, ect, my only goal was to get to where I was going, now I look back and realize how much I was missing.
It's the journey, the experience of good company, and the energy I feel in each special place I go to, that I seek now.

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